Aus Scuttlebutt 800 (24.04.2001): Diskussion
über J/24 und Sonar.
---------------------------------
* From Dennis Hawkins: I think Jack Spanglers criticism of the J-24 is
somewhat unfair. Twenty-five plus years ago when the J-24 was introduced it was truly a breakthrough design. They were fast for that time, fun to sail,
required only three or four crew and inexpensive to own and maintain. At that time the race boats of choice were designed to the IOR rule, were not that fast, had somewhat questionable sailing characteristics (especially downwind), were not that comfortable and quite expensive. Then along came the J-24, which was truly a giant killer of the time.
Back then I crewed on a IOR boat and remember one heavy air race when a J-24 came surfing by us downwind with a crew of four laughing all the way while our crew of twelve struggled as we rolled side to side out of control.
Lets also remember the J-24 was designed prior to the widespread use of
computers to aid in design and predict sailing characteristics. The fact people are willing to cut up old J-24's to modernize them says a lot about their still respectable performance and durability. I wonder how many fewer big boat sailors there would be today if they hadn't been introduced to racing on a J-24 either in one design or handicap racing. I'm sure the Sonar is a fine boat but comparing the two is like apples and oranges.
* From Dan Tucker: (edited to our 250-word limit) Jack Spangler is right about the J-24. I've been racing for J-24's for 7 years. I've said all along that they're terrible boats to sail. Uncomfortable and brutally abusive to the crew, terribly difficult to drive well and badly designed in a number of ways.
That being said... I love racing J-24s and wouldn't trade it for any comparably sized one design. Those very weaknesses of the design of the J-24 are what make it so challenging to master. I race on the same line as one of the largest Sonar fleets in the US. I covet the comfy layout of a Sonar, but in the J-24 class I have dozens of opportunities each season to
race against and learn from world class sailors. Watching Read bob and weave through a 50 boat fleet on port tack 20 seconds after the gun is an education in boat handling and crew work. America's Cup crews are a Who's Who of past J-24 champions. There are few one design classes that regularly attract (and develop) the best of the best: Stars, Etchells and J-24's are classes that come to mind.
Regional and national J-24 events are intensely tight, competitive, strategic and tactical racing. I don't expect to ever win one of those. I'm more than happy to be the little fish in that BIG pond and win at home. Jeff Johnstone is absolutely right, "don't count on the [J-24] fading away."
aus Suttlebutt 799:
* From Ken Carpenter: In 1989 I decided I would buy a J-24, I was at lunch at the St Pete Yacht Club with Tony Johnson, he told me it did not make any difference how much I paid for the boat because by the time I had it ready to go racing I would have $15,000 into it. I bought the boat for $8600 and kept track of my expenses such as fairing the bottom, sail comp, new sails, etc and when it
was all said and done I had $14,983.00 into it. The beauty of a J-24 is you can still do that today!
---------------------------------
* From Dennis Hawkins: I think Jack Spanglers criticism of the J-24 is
somewhat unfair. Twenty-five plus years ago when the J-24 was introduced it was truly a breakthrough design. They were fast for that time, fun to sail,
required only three or four crew and inexpensive to own and maintain. At that time the race boats of choice were designed to the IOR rule, were not that fast, had somewhat questionable sailing characteristics (especially downwind), were not that comfortable and quite expensive. Then along came the J-24, which was truly a giant killer of the time.
Back then I crewed on a IOR boat and remember one heavy air race when a J-24 came surfing by us downwind with a crew of four laughing all the way while our crew of twelve struggled as we rolled side to side out of control.
Lets also remember the J-24 was designed prior to the widespread use of
computers to aid in design and predict sailing characteristics. The fact people are willing to cut up old J-24's to modernize them says a lot about their still respectable performance and durability. I wonder how many fewer big boat sailors there would be today if they hadn't been introduced to racing on a J-24 either in one design or handicap racing. I'm sure the Sonar is a fine boat but comparing the two is like apples and oranges.
* From Dan Tucker: (edited to our 250-word limit) Jack Spangler is right about the J-24. I've been racing for J-24's for 7 years. I've said all along that they're terrible boats to sail. Uncomfortable and brutally abusive to the crew, terribly difficult to drive well and badly designed in a number of ways.
That being said... I love racing J-24s and wouldn't trade it for any comparably sized one design. Those very weaknesses of the design of the J-24 are what make it so challenging to master. I race on the same line as one of the largest Sonar fleets in the US. I covet the comfy layout of a Sonar, but in the J-24 class I have dozens of opportunities each season to
race against and learn from world class sailors. Watching Read bob and weave through a 50 boat fleet on port tack 20 seconds after the gun is an education in boat handling and crew work. America's Cup crews are a Who's Who of past J-24 champions. There are few one design classes that regularly attract (and develop) the best of the best: Stars, Etchells and J-24's are classes that come to mind.
Regional and national J-24 events are intensely tight, competitive, strategic and tactical racing. I don't expect to ever win one of those. I'm more than happy to be the little fish in that BIG pond and win at home. Jeff Johnstone is absolutely right, "don't count on the [J-24] fading away."
aus Suttlebutt 799:
* From Ken Carpenter: In 1989 I decided I would buy a J-24, I was at lunch at the St Pete Yacht Club with Tony Johnson, he told me it did not make any difference how much I paid for the boat because by the time I had it ready to go racing I would have $15,000 into it. I bought the boat for $8600 and kept track of my expenses such as fairing the bottom, sail comp, new sails, etc and when it
was all said and done I had $14,983.00 into it. The beauty of a J-24 is you can still do that today!
